Rewarded, Respected & Challenged: Chobani CCO Ben Boyd on Responsible Leadership

Neil Morrison: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Aspire to Inspire Podcast. My name is Neil Morrison. I’m the Chief People Officer at Staffbase. Today, I’m joined by Ben Boyd, the Chief Communications Officer at Chobani. Ben, welcome. It’s great to have you with us.

Ben Boyd: It is great to be here. I really appreciate the invitation.

Neil Morrison: Not at all. Fantastic. Ben, look, Edelman, Lowe’s, Peloton, now Chobani, I mean, quite the impressive roster. Loads of experiences there, that, of course, we’d love to hear more about. Can you just walk us through that journey?

Ben Boyd: Sure, Neil. I don’t know that I think it’s that exciting. I think the thing I’d start with is just, I’ve had this mantra across my career. Three hallmarks, a mental scorecard, if you will. Rewarded, respected, and challenged. If those were out of line, then it was either time to rethink where I was, and that could be reinvention, which for me, Edelman was 15 years of reinvention.

What an amazing ride that was, as we tripled the size of the firm, the global footprint of the firm, working with and for, and learning from Richard [Edelman] and Matt Harrington. The Trust Barometer, amazing work with amazing clients, and I think five different global roles over the course of my time there. As I think back on that time, probably, one of my big lessons was, after a time, things do get stale, and that’s okay. Right?

I think it’s up to each of us to go to our leaders with a thought on where and how we can both be fulfilled, while also creating value for the enterprise. I’m really fortunate that Richard was crazy enough to say, “yes”, more than “no” over the course of my tenure there. After a pretty long career in agency, I had the opportunity to go in-house. That was just learning in a completely different vector, if you will.

I think there is a huge bias out there, I’ll be honest, that senior agency folks can’t do the in-house role. I’m not sure that I agree with that, to be honest. We could spend a lot of time on that. Working with, and for Marisa Thalberg, who was CMO at Lowe’s was huge. She is such a tremendous integrated thinker, and never viewed comms as separate from marketing.

In fact, was more frustrated with me at times if I missed the meeting to soundproof the creative brief than any other meeting, because she wanted that comms perspective in the room. That was tremendous. Home improvement during the pandemic was also quite an experience. We were an essential retailer. Being on the COVID task force there is something that I’m incredibly proud of, a quarter of a million associates on the front lines through the pandemic, serving customers.

How did we keep that business going? How did we navigate those times? Keeping our customers safe, keeping our associates safe was always front and center for leadership. Interestingly enough, when I started that job, I had a health issue that led to a new C5-C6. I have a bionic neck, a titanium disc. A part of my recovery, my husband said, “We’re going to get a Peloton.”

I was like, “You are insane. There’s no way we’re getting one of those bikes.” He dragged me to the showroom in Charlotte, North Carolina, and we walked out with a bike on order because at that point, there was a demand and a waiting time. I just fell in love with the community, I fell in love with the instruction, I fell in love with the experience, I fell in love with the impact it had on my life, and it really enabled my recovery.

When my phone rang after Barry had taken over as CEO there, and it was an opportunity to both come back to New York City, which, to be honest, we had missed, but to go in-house at Peloton, and be a part of that transformation team, my calculus was pretty clear. Most of all, what an amazing ride that would be, pun intended, I guess, and a learning experience. That’s what it turned out to be.

Over the course of that, my own health and wellness obsession, I guess is maybe the fair way to say it, grew, and I became much more cognizant of how I was working out, what I was consuming. As a part of that personal experience, I fell in love with the Chobani brand, the portfolio of products. It became my go-to low-calorie, high-protein option.

After two years at Peloton, and my phone rang to come here, and be Chief Comms Officer, that for me was just an incredible opportunity. I started on The Hill in Washington, I think great training fundamentally, but those are some of the highlights, Neil, just I think in terms of the last couple of decades or so. I’m so incredibly fortunate in the places I’ve worked, the brands I’ve worked with, my personal connection to those brands was never a part of my calculus. I was always connected to all of those. I care very deeply about the places and the people and the teams that I work with. I’ve been really, really lucky. Sorry for such a long answer.

Neil Morrison: No, it’s cool. It’s fascinating. I think what really stands out for me is that you’ve created this framework to assess in some way opportunities against, whether that’s new opportunities, or the ones you are in, but equally, there’s this almost compass that’s taken you through finding those opportunities, or maybe those materializing, and seeing how the personal connection outside of the professional one, even at times, has also been a real driving factor. It’s fascinating.

You mentioned the Trust Barometer during your time at Edelman, and that’s something that we’re fascinated with, and hear a lot about. I would love to hear from you about how that conceived, and what it turned into, and why you believe that’s such an important thing for organizations to know about as they’re thinking about communication and its impact?

Ben Boyd: All credit to Richard Edelman, the Trust Barometer really was his impetus. I’ve lost track of how many studies they’ve now done. It’s really, I think his ambition was to build at that point, I think there was a lot more bifurcation between consumer and reputation work, if you will, within brands, within corporates that’s become so much more blurred. I’m both happy by that recognition and realization in business today.

I think the notion of trust is paramount. I think it was a simple construct. How much did you trust business, or government, or NGOs to do the right thing? I love that construct, Neil. The right thing in China is different than the right thing in the US, is different than the right thing in France. That doesn’t mean that one of those is right and one of those is wrong.

It’s the construct works locally and has stood the test of time in terms of measures against the four primary institutions.

I was fortunate in that one of those times of reinvention, Richard [Edelman] said, “Why don’t you work with me on Trust, and be my partner on that?” I learned probably more from him and from that experience than arguably at any other time in my career. I was daunted by that. I think as communicators were word people. I’m married to a numbers guy. He’s a CFO at the Trevor Project. He handles the numbers, and I handle the words.

What I quickly had to get my head around when you’re working with research is numbers. I think it took away the fear factor for me, and threw me in the deep end of the pool at a pretty late stage of my career that has been a benefit ever since. I think that what Richard has aspired to do, and I give him credit, I think he’s done it, is drive a pretty continual conversation about an incredibly relevant and resonant topic, which is trust, because trust is the quintessential currency in today’s world.

If you think about when the Trust Barometer started, there wasn’t the notion of misinformation and mistruths. The world has really evolved, and I guess devolved as this conversation has unfolded. I think it continues to be a powerful construct that anything that sparks as much conversation as that study has, to me is a great gift.

Neil Morrison: Absolutely. I think talking about how society has evolved over those years as well. Now, we’re in this super transparent, highly accountable space where there’s glass panels everywhere, consumers get to peek in, employees get to peek out, and vice versa, and this notion of building trust and reputation from the inside out, from the employee audience, that then translates authentically.

I’m curious to know, in any of your more recent roles, or at your time working of course, with some of those leading organizations, agency side, have you seen companies really nail that, really get this internal narrative and sense of pride that transpires externally, and builds trust and reputation?

Ben Boyd: What a great question. I think nails it, your question — I would challenge and say, if they have nailed it, it’s momentary, because I think trust is continually earned, and you have to be a steward of that. It’s a relational construct. I think I’m pretty proud that both Peloton, and here at Chobani, probably, two of the most transparent organizations from an internal communication standpoint of any place I’ve ever worked, you know, at times maybe too much so, which is a weird thing to say, but led to good provocative conversations internally, as we talked about what we were going to communicate, where, when, and how.

I think to me, it can’t begin more emphatically without transparency. I don’t think transparency has to be reckless. I think you can be clear with the employee population around parameters of what you can and cannot say. Peloton, a public company, Chobani a private company, pre-IPO, different constructs around what we can share when, but the commitment is the same, and that commitment really has to come from the top.

I think as a communicator, you can be provocative with your leadership team around the opportunity to say more, to share more. It’s almost . . . there’s also a consciousness I have from an internal comms standpoint, and that notion of transparency, that it’s much like social media. It’s not a megaphone, it’s a telephone. It’s got to go both ways. It’s a simple, simple thing.

After I joined here four months ago now, we have a town hall every single month. We started sending out a post-town hall survey, some of which are measured questions, but half of that is open-ended, and it’s just an opportunity for people to feed back in. How did they find the meeting? The other thing was a Q&A portion with our ELT, and those Qs are posed by our employees here, and then upvoted and downvoted.

We, as an internal comms function, can create what we think is the ideal agenda, and we should have an agenda. There should be things that are our priority to share, but we also need to listen and be responsive to what is most on the minds of our employees. That can be a bit of a double-edged sword, but again, how do you have that dialogue? How is it a telephone if you don’t have the give and take?

Neil Morrison: Absolutely. Thinking about all of these experiences, and you being in senior leadership roles, responsible, and you used the word “stewarding” a moment ago, I think that’s a great concept, but really stewarding the organization through the role of strategic communications. I wonder if you ladder above all of those experiences in those roles, are there some lessons of wisdom that you’ve taken that you rely on now to be that steward through strategic comms?

Ben Boyd: I’m not sure, wisdom implies wise. That’s a good question. Look, I would say, stylistically, it’s probably a part of who I’ve always been, which I think has served me well, which is to be direct. I feel like in my role you have to be the conscience and the speaker of truth, even if that feels uncomfortable. I would hope that as opposed to wiser, I’ve mellowed and become more measured in my directness, because I think it’s not sometimes just what we say from a directness standpoint, it’s how we say it, and also when we say it. That I think is incredibly important. There is a responsibility, I think, for the leader of the function to be the voice of truth.

That has to be informed. I think you also have to know what you know, and know what you don’t know. As you speak the truth, understand that some of that is likely subjective or editorial. I think as long as you caveat that point of view, and I also, I guess, lastly, would be the power of questions. I think as communicators, probably more especially as agency-trained people, you begin to think that you have to have all the answers. I think sometimes the smartest questions will carry you much further than what you think is the best answer.

Neil Morrison: I think that’s a great piece of advice, focusing as much, if not more on the questions, than putting the pressure on finding the answers. You talked about being agency trained, and earlier on making the jump from agency to in-house, and there may be some schools of thought out there that that’s less possible, but you would probably disagree with that.

I’d love to know, what do you think those first 15 years agency side gave you as the superpower that helped you then make the shift to in-house as a communications lead, and then equally, what was some of the learning mode when you did make the jump from agency to in-house?

Ben Boyd: That’s a good one. I think the ability to process information fast, wide, and deep, and I would put it in that order, because I think it’s more often on the agency side more wide than it is deep. The speed though is relentless, and I think it’s gotten more so, so I think that that agency training around speed was crucial because you were in a counseling role.

If you had earned the trust and the respect of your client, certainly some work was transactional, but the more senior you got the more it was strategic thought partner. I really value that in my agency partners since I’ve gotten client side. The second part of your question, Neil, can you remind me what that was?

Neil Morrison: Yes. Then, you make the leap, and now you are in-house. What were some of those early unlearn-to-relearn, or the big learning moments?

Ben Boyd: I think first it was, I guess, at Lowe’s — at all three, right? — it’s like, okay, your reminded of that bias that I talked a little bit about before. You’re trying to understand what are the differences? Are there differences? I think you recognize pretty quickly that you are the decider. I think I always respected on agency side that you didn’t know — as much as you knew where your client was, what they were asking for, et cetera, you still didn’t know what a day was like in their shoes.

I don’t know candidly why I was so fortunate to have that perspective at agency. For me, at agency it was always like, my job is to give you the client, the absolute best, most informed, most comprehensive counsel I can. Then, I have to wash my hands because I don’t really know what your reality is to take it from me giving it to you and you doing what you need to do with it, changing it, accepting it, advancing it, shelving it. I can’t know that, right?

I think here it is being confident and convicted in the recommendations that I make when I make them. If I’m not clear, and that doesn’t mean that sometimes my CEO won’t call and say, “What are your thoughts on this?” Sometimes I just need to say, “I need a minute,” or, “Here’s a couple of questions I’m playing around with, what do you think about those? I’ll come back to you with a recommendation.”

I do think asking for help, which can be additional time to process and land the recommendation, but I do think you have to be clear in your sense of what the recommended step is.

Neil Morrison: Absolutely. Thinking about the experience at Lowe’s and Peloton, it seems that the immediate context, the macro context, has created some level of need from a transformation perspective in both of those environments. In the last couple of roles, let’s say, transformation has been a part of your path. I would love to hear about, now you’re at Chobani and you’re looking to, I suppose, transform again, and I’d love to hear more about the business challenge that you’re looking to transform, the communications organization you are hoping to transform. I’d love to get your thoughts.

Ben Boyd: I think every opportunity is iterative. Lowe’s was the first in-house role. I don’t think in any of the three in-house roles I’ve had that the mandate has been, don’t change anything. Everything is perfect. It’s been somewhat the opposite in terms of expectation and appetite for what communications as a function can deliver. If I take a step back, I’ve long believed that communications was not seen as a creator of business value.

At the agency, but also here, or in my three in-house roles, I’ve tried to always articulate that the enterprise should expect more from communications in measurable tangible ways, as it relates to business value. That could be internal comms from an engagement score, and moving that needle. That could be, as it is here for me at Chobani, top-of-funnel awareness in terms of measures and brand awareness.

I think that no place is the same, no business is the same, no industry is the same. There are some commonalities. There’s some interesting parallels between what I’m putting in place here, and what I did at Lowe’s that I didn’t do at Peloton, for example. Here we are doing — it’s four months in, so we are doing a reset and as you said, a transformation of the function in the department.

Our CEO comes from Turkey. We have a person in a team who’s focused just on that international reputation and profile. Then, we have our brand and lifestyle communications team which is looking at what are the seasonals? Back to school at the moment, or for those that don’t know, Chobani owns La Colombe, the coffee brand, and so National Cold Brew Day, one I’m sure you celebrate, Neil, every year, but how do we inject the brands into trends, fads, and seasonal moments?

There was a recent little trend on Instagram and TikTok around fluffy yogurt that had to do with whipping in a baking soda. How do we jump in on that quickly, and just be a part of that conversation. We also have what I call the One Chobani Communications Team, which is really our reputation play that our mantras here around our product portfolio is natural, nutritious, delicious, and accessible.

We only have natural ingredients, no preservatives, no artificial flavors. Nutritious; we believe that we largely deliver nutrient bombs into the refrigerators of Americans and Mexicans and a few other markets where we — Australians — where we are in mass. High in protein, low in sugar, high in fiber, just in terms of some of our processing. We have deep relationships with our farmers.

All of our milk is sourced within a 100-mile radius of our plants, and we pay a premium for milk that does not have growth hormones involved in herd management in any way, just by way of example. That’s not just paying a premium, that’s being in relationship with the farmer. Delicious; exactly what it sounds like, both the mouth feel and the taste, but also the look.

I think if you look at the brand of Chobani or even La Colombe, they’re very distinct, but they’re creatively beautiful, I think, and impactful. Then accessible, because if we do all of that and it’s not accessible then what’s the point? Our One Chobani communications is around how do we tell those four dimensions or how do we tell them individually or how do we tell them together?

Then, all of that is in the center of that Venn diagram is internal communications. Obviously, all of those stories resonate for our internal audiences, which matter deeply. At every town hall, we tell an origin story, which is the backstory of a team member from some corner of the company. Just this month I had the great fortune of meeting somebody that’s worked here 11 years in our Twin Falls plant.

Came from Africa, left as a refugee. We hired him two weeks after he arrived in Twin Falls, and has been promoted, I think, six times in that subsequent 11 years. It’s just an amazing story. It’s also just a reminder, I think when I think of how hard my life has been. You meet some of these folks, and it’s not too much to call them heroes just in terms of what they’ve endured by contrast.

It’s trying to paint the picture internally of the rich tapestry of the company that we are, and that’s something that we’re incredibly proud of, which is our commitment to that. Then lastly, underpinning that from a transformational standpoint is our editorial strategy and content team. I believe that this is a very visual brand. I think food is extremely visual.

If you think about the ingredients, if you think about the expression of the smile, when I have that first sip of my cold brew coffee with a Chobani creamer in the morning, that is my moment. That’s a way I feel, and so how do we capture that visually? What you’ll see us do more of is more visual storytelling internally and externally to bring that NNDA construct to life for consumers, and all of that, all of that transformation is about one objective, which is creating more business value for this company.

Because if this company wins, consumers win. Because the more of my yogurt that I can put into refrigerators and displace others, I think the more nutritious, the less sugar that folks will be consuming. There is an impact story here, obviously, around our commitment to hire refugees, around our commitment to the earth, and the way that we source ingredients and work with our farmers, but I think the impact really begins with our product, and so really trying to tell that story more aggressively over the coming months with this new construct of team.

There’s been a tremendous embrace of this approach from a resourcing standpoint, and the ability to bring on talent. We had a senior director join yesterday to lead lifestyle and brand. I had a director for the editorial strategy and content who joined three weeks ago. We’re definitely adding some pretty incredible talent to the team, and I’m so excited about where we’re going. The truth is, we’ve landed the transformation architecture, but we’re just getting started in terms of creating business value for Chobani.

Neil Morrison: No, it sounds so exciting, and I’ve got to say, it sounds like you’ve been there a lot longer than four months the way you talked about the brand and the mission, but I suppose, remembering you’ve been connected to the brand for some time before you joined, so I think you are already the evangelist in that sense.

Ben Boyd: It’s hard not to love good product in a world in which consumers have so much choice. Again, we’re back to misinformation and trust. We want to be trusted. When we’re in your refrigerator, we want you to feel good about that. If I had my aspiration, I’d love for you to open your refrigerator and have our La Colombe Cold Brew and some Chobani cream and some Chobani yogurt and maybe some Chobani oat milk, and be as proud of that brand and talk about that brand at your dinner party in the same way that I experienced consumers being so excited and talking about their Peloton and their ride. That’s my dream.

Neil Morrison: Therein lies the challenge. Amongst all of that, thank you for bringing it back to trust and reputation, because there’s like a halo of good throughout that One Chobani story. Everything you just said, there’s in some way trust building good initiatives within that, and it’s about amplifying and sharing that and making sure it ladders up to that overall mission.

I was seeing recently about the launch of Chobani Super Milk, if I’m right. I would love to hear more about that, because from what I saw and read it seems like another great example of this reputation-building through good.

Ben Boyd: Neil, thank you. All credit to Hamdi from Turkey and the earthquakes, if you remember, that ravaged that country, his homeland, and he was a big leader in philanthropic support to get communities rebuilt. I think he was really, as he always is, was so thoughtful around that experience and his belief that business can and should do more. The question that I think he posed to himself and to the company is, “What more can we do for those in times of need?”

Our innovation team, our new product development team, went to work, and what they ultimately developed was what we call Super Milk. It is a shelf-stable, which is aseptic, that’s what aseptic means, so it does not need refrigeration for up to nine months until it’s opened. It’s an aseptic milk, it is dairy-based, it is higher in protein, lower in sugar, and higher in fiber than your average whole milk.

Why that’s important is because families in the aftermath of natural disaster have lost what? Electricity. Their ability to get any high-nutrient food item that requires refrigeration is extremely limited. We worked with the American Red Cross and our food bank partners in both central New York, which is where one of our plants is, [and] in Twin Falls area in Idaho, to talk about the construct of what they would need from a sizing packaging standpoint, and that was really the architecture behind Super Milk. Was an idea from Hamdi, and then a commitment to him to deliver. What does deliver look like, I think is a pretty powerful story.

As a company that is growing, we feel extremely lucky about that, because not a lot of companies in the dairy category are, and we are responsible for more than 50% of the growth within dairy across the US today, which is a pretty remarkable feat, and something that we’re very proud of. We shift profitable production lines. We pay for and work with our farm cooperatives to have the raw ingredients.

We process that and package that. We work with great partners like Tetra Pak to package this. We divert profitable resources to create this shelf-stable milk in batches monthly, with a minimum commitment each month. We then house that in our warehouse facilities, and then the American Red Cross will determine what is known as a Level 4 disaster, and if it reaches that level of need then they’ll call us and they’ll ask for a delivery of Super Milk to that specific location.

We were moving towards a launch, and unfortunately, the wildfires happened in New Mexico. That was a Level 4 disaster. They said, “Can we move faster?” We said, “Yes.” The first Super Milk was distributed in New Mexico to those impacted by the wildfires. Then, unfortunately, we had the earliest severe hurricane that we’ve had in recorded history with Beryl, who came into the Gulf, and Texas. And so the second delivery of Super Milk was into Houston for those impacted by Beryl.

It’s a tremendous partnership with the Red Cross, who’s the arbiter of when and where the milk will be dispersed. It’s through their feeding centers. It’s just a tremendous, I think, example of taking for us what is a core expertise and deploying it, not commercially available. Not for a commercial for-profit product, but literally something that was specifically designed to support those in the aftermath of a natural disaster.

Pretty proud of that, and more importantly, just the lives that it will, again, impact. “Impact” is a big word here. I think you begin to see and experience that in talking to me, and this is just another example of impact.

Neil Morrison: What an amazing example, I think first and foremost of the good that it can do at exactly the right time in crisis. Also, what a remarkably authentic narrative to be able to build upon internally and externally for the brand itself.

Ben Boyd: Just no question, Neil, it was like, “Hand stacked. Here’s the idea, let’s go do it.” Very fast motion from concept to first batch delivered. That just takes — sometimes things are simple — it just takes the will and the focus to make them happen. I worked in a lot of places that get distracted, or have good intentions but here; good intentions become actions. And that’s incredibly powerful. For me, as a communicator, that’s a gift to be able to just talk about that.

Neil Morrison: It also makes me think about this shift that I believe we’re seeing over time around the notion of corporate social responsibility, of CSR more broadly. It seems to me long gone are the days of big donations of the money we’ve made, and it’s far more about doing good, the way we make money. This feels like a great example of maybe that shift, and as I said, just then resonates far more authentically, incredibly, at a human level. 

Ben Boyd: I was just going to say, I think too many brands, to your point, have tried to check boxes, or demonstrate commitments through actions that may not be authentically connected to who they are and how they move through the world. I think for us, the areas of hunger, the areas of impact, like I said, in natural disaster, working with our farming communities from an ingredients and sourcing standpoint, these are just the obvious areas for us where we begin.

We do more in our local communities because we also believe that, be that here in SoHo, or in the New Berlin, New York area in Twin Falls, we are a citizen of that community, so being involved, being invested, and helping there, both through the volunteer hours that we make possible through our volunteer programs across our 3600 employees, or through direct contributions, or through some more scalable initiatives that have longer-term impact and ambition. That’s how we think about the impact construct.

Neil Morrison: Which is just really positive to hear that it’s integrated through the external expression, as well as an internal activation, but all with impact in mind. We read more and more about the disengaged workforce and a workforce lacking motivation. One of those key motivation drivers is the knowledge that what I do is, in some way, adding up to more. You’ve shared some great examples of where, no doubt, your Chobani employees are directly involved in those impact initiatives.

Ben Boyd: Yes, absolutely. We try to facilitate that with frequency. A great example is Super Milk. A recent volunteer opportunity to help distribute some of that product to the Central New York Food Banks of which there are multiple. That takes time, that takes energy, that takes woman- and manpower. We paid time off, or paid volunteer time to participate in some of these efforts.

Neil Morrison: Very cool. Well, meanwhile, we’re all now applying to join the Chobani team. Sounds great. You mentioned earlier about the context the pandemic gave Lowe’s, and whilst we’re talking about community, and maybe even disaster response, can you share some more of that community activation or involvement during the time at Lowe’s with the pandemic going on all around you?

Ben Boyd: Again, authentically, Lowe’s looked at it, and this work started while I was there but really came to fruition after I left, the notion of the housing crisis and the ability for those, because it really was exacerbated during the pandemic, both the luxury remodel but also the needed remodel in terms of renovation of houses that were just aging, as we saw the housing inventory really age and begin to show wear and tear.

The big conundrum that Lowe’s — we began to think about and Lowe’s is now addressing at scale — is the building trades and the opportunity for more youth to understand the building trades as career opportunity for them. Again, that’s a direct impact on the community. That’s authentically tied to who Lowe’s is as a home improvement retailer, but working with the skilled trades and helping educate youth on the opportunities that a career in plumbing or a career in electrical or carpentry can present for their professional future is both gratifying in that you’re showing someone a new and possible plausible way forward, but that way will have impact as well.

Some of those programs were designed to help communities in need in local markets with some of that renovation work that I told you that was not luxury, but was necessity. I think since my departure they really scaled that program in pretty dramatic ways with a significant multi-million dollar commitment to support skilled trades. I’m not sure where that is today, but it was some really exciting work that was nearing completion through the foundation when I was leaving.

Neil Morrison: It’s really clear unpacking some of these examples that these powerful narratives of trust-building, reputation-building, ultimately brand-building strategies. I’m trying to find the insight, the advice almost, but it seems to be like, make it authentic, make it relevant to the brand, and in some way make it distinctive. I think all those examples can show up in a way that can [unintelligible]. 

Ben Boyd: I also think that those examples are, don’t —  If leadership comes to communications and says, “What should our impact strategy be from a reputation standpoint?” I think that’s the tail wagging the dog. I think the power of these stories that I’m sharing is because they authentically began with who the brands were and are, and how they move through the world.

Now, times change and those brands change, and appetite for risk and potential blowback, all of those are variables. I have a mantra that there’s no wrong answer, except for the lack of a choiceful, purposeful answer. We can disagree on the answer, but as long as we talk it out fully and authentically and we’re aware of the upside and the potential downside, and we stack hands to win and go forward, that’s the right answer.

That right answer for Chobani today may not be the same right answer tomorrow. That’s okay, as long as, again, it’s choiceful, purposeful. Then, if you have those components, you can also be then transparent, because I think where transparency becomes hard and becomes compromised is when you can’t answer the obvious questions.

Neil Morrison: That’s a great point well-made around the tail wagging the dog and being informed from the business where those ideas are stimulated most or best. You mentioned earlier about whether Melissa Thalberg wanting you in the room, wanting comms in the room, or demanding more from communications in terms of business impact. I’m curious to know how those themes ladder into then your approach with your own team.

You talk about being a people-first leader. I’d love to know: what does that approach mean to you and how do you make sure that your team knows that, “Hey, we have an elevated purpose here for business value.”?

Ben Boyd: That’s a great question. I’d like to hope that I’m an ongoing student. I’d like to hope I’m better today than I was last year and certainly a decade or two decades ago. I think I was so driven and ambitious earlier in my career. I still am. Again, I think it’s the “how.” I think I’ve always expected a lot from my teams. Today, I don’t expect less than I did but I think I lead with my humanity and I want to lead from the front.

I don’t ask anything of teams that I am not willing to give. 

I think the other big change over the past 10 years, I’d like to believe, is learning to commit to celebrate the successes and the small wins. There’s nothing that we do is perfect, but there is so much that we do that is just so just good. We’ve got to slow down to acknowledge the little wins on a daily basis. We start our weekly team meetings with wins and shoutouts, which is both a win but also just a thank you, acknowledging how somebody helped me and supported me.

I also think that I try to be very transparent around my role and what I deal with, which my team may not directly deal with. How can I ask for their help? How can I ask for their empathy, if I’m not transparent with them about what my realities are as a member of the executive leadership team and what some of those experiences are? And every day I think is a learning.

There was a meeting that we had, I guess about a month ago. I made a comment in that meeting that really, I think, disappointed one of my team members. I went home and really reflected on that and recognized it. I may have been saying the truthful thing. I didn’t mean anything by it. It wasn’t intended to be cutting. What I was trying to reflect on was her reaction.

I called her the next day and said, “Hey.” We just talked it out, because I needed to understand what elicited that reaction. She was honest. I think that that honesty comes from just the safe space that you have to create where people can not cower because of hierarchy. Some of the places I’ve worked have been incredibly bureaucratic and incredibly hierarchical, which is why they weren’t good fits for me ultimately.

I think on my teams I’ve always tried to make sure that it was, again, that two-way dialogue. What she ultimately said was, “You undercut my work.” I said, “You’re exactly right, and for that I apologize. That was not my intention. Let’s take a step back and figure it out,” because I had a concern, and then we talked that out. In the next team meeting, I acknowledged that that had not been handled in the right way.

I’m going to make mistakes. We have to acknowledge that we’re all flawed, even with our best of intentions, because this is a part of my life. It’s not my whole life. What goes on here, what goes around me when I leave here, all is in the mix every single day of the things that I’m juggling. It feels like we’re all living in through historical moment after historical moment after historical moment, which for some feels incredibly stressful.

I think it’s just trying to be self-aware, trying to be the leader that you —  I said when I came client side, I wanted to be the client that I had hoped I would have when I was on the agency side. I want to be the boss that I’ve always hoped I would have over the course of my career.

Neil Morrison: I love that. The thing that jumped out, and really resonated was this acknowledgment that we’re all flawed. I think that human acknowledgment of fallibility is actually what causes the deep connection. That’s how we can really get to know each other and get some great things done together. Thank you for sharing that perspective. Actually, Ben, thanks for sharing.

This whole conversation, it’s been really, really, really enjoyable. One more searching question, my side. You mentioned there’s a lot going on in the world from historical moment to historical moment, and I don’t think that’s going to let up anytime soon. It’s pretty unstable out there. It’s pretty polarized. There’s a lot going on. What hope would you offer for us?

Ben Boyd: Neil, if I could answer that, right? I can just say that I try to listen to myself. I would encourage everybody to do that. If I need to turn off the news or turn off social media to be more present, I find that life is passing us by, or passing me by, and that feels scary and stressful. Trying to be more present on the subway, at the gym, in a meeting, over a glass of wine, and not constantly distracted.

That may be my unique challenge, but I just think with so much going on, we’re always trying to figure out what’s the next bit of news, or what’s the next fad, or what thing am I supposed to be paying attention to, so that I can speak eloquently at the dinner party on Saturday night or when I’m at the bar. Sometimes I think it’s just about being.

I think we’ve lost the premium on being. I’m really striving to lean into that more in my day-to-day, not just my weekends. That’d my hope that we can all find those moments to just be.

Neil Morrison: That’s great. We’ve lost the premium on just being. That sounds just about right. Ben, thank you so much, and thank you, everyone. I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode, and we look forward to seeing you again on another one here at the Aspire to Inspire Podcast.

Ben Boyd: Thanks so much, Neil.