The Inner Shift: Advita Patel on Leading with True Confidence

Brian Tomlinson: Hello and welcome to a brand new Aspire to Inspire Podcast episode. My name is Brian Tomlinson, and I am the head of content at Staffbase. Today's guest is someone who embodies what it means to be a changemaker. Advita Patel is the current president of the Chartered Institute of Public Relations, a celebrated confidence coach, and a positive disruptor reshaping the way we think about workplace culture.

As the founder of Comms Rebel and cofounder of A Leader Like Me and the Asian Comms Network, Advita has made it her mission to empower communicators and leaders to build inclusive, confident, and thriving teams. She's also the coauthor of "Building a Culture of Inclusivity," a guidebook that's become essential reading for modern comms professionals.

Her career spans leadership coaching, DEI strategy, change communication, and employee experience, but at the heart of it all, helping people find their voice and use it with confidence. So in this episode, we explore how Advita is using communication as a vehicle for transformation and how you can do the same in your organization to elevate employee well-being. Advita, welcome to the show.

Advita Patel: Thank you, Brian. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Brian Tomlinson: It's a pleasure. We've actually been waiting for quite a while to try to catch you here, so more than happy. Let's jump right in. I think one of your big topics that you talk about a lot is confidence. You described yourself as a confidence coach, a positive disruptor, which I love. I just love that term. And I know that you're writing now your second book. I think it's "Decoding Confidence."

Advita Patel: Yes, "Decoding Confidence: The Seven Habits of Confident Leaders."

Brian Tomlinson: I love it. So maybe let's start with that. What does confidence mean to you?

Advita Patel: Such a great question to start with. So if I could go back in time in how I got to this space, I've always been curious about confidence and imposter syndrome because they're often the words that comms folks use to describe how they are feeling in certain situations. So friends and colleagues, and partners that I have worked with will often say that, "Oh, I feel a bit like an imposter," or "My confidence has been knocked here," or "My self-esteem isn't where it needs to be." And if you think about the work that we do in communications, especially internal communication, everyone's an expert, right?

And I'm sure some of our listeners can relate with this that when you work in an organization and you're trying to persuade, encourage, communicate, there's always somebody somewhere that's got a better opinion than you or has stronger views than you. And you're spending a lot of your time negotiating and influencing and trying to demonstrate your value, which could knock your confidence and also make you believe that you're not good at what you're doing when you come back with lots of criticism. And I started to observe and witness behaviors and noticed that those leaders who led with confidence, who believed in their value, tended to have better results because of that.

And confidence isn't about who is the loudest in the room or who shouts the loudest or who wants to be the center of attention all of the time. In fact, in my research, those people are often the ones who are masking their insecurities because they're trying to distract from their worries or their challenges that they are facing. Confidence is about having that quiet assurance that regardless of what happens to you, you'll be able to manage it well, and you'll be able to deal with adversity, and you still value yourself, and you won't knock yourself down despite what's happening around you.

And I talk about it so passionately because I experienced a huge confidence crash in 2018 where I didn't want to work in communications anymore because I'd spent . . . I believe that I spent so much of my 15 years prior to that building and listening to other people telling me what makes a great communicator and following their instructions yet not succeeding as quickly as I would have wanted to in certain roles and positions. And after a specific incident where my confidence was knocked, I decided that I was going to quit comms and go and do something else.

And it was on a journey to work, I was driving in my car and I was speaking to a good friend of mine and I was complaining to her about how unfair life was basically and how I was fed up with this profession and how I don't see people like me and there's no way someone like me can succeed. So I was going to just go and do something else. And she basically said, "You're in control of your destiny. You get to choose how you want to be seen and shown. What are you going to do about it? How are you going to take control of what's going on around you without allowing other people to tell you what you should and shouldn't do or make you believe that you're not good enough?"

And that was a bit of a light bulb moment for me. So I remember parking my car and sitting in my car for about half an hour just reflecting on everything that I've said to her and my career today, and decided that I was going to invest some time and energy into finding out why confidence is such a barrier for so many of us, and what can we do about it. And that's where my confidence journey started, and I went in deep with confidence, imposter syndrome, self-esteem, and started to do research in this space, which is why I became a confidence coach to help other professionals find their value and not have to seek validation and permission to do great things.

Brian Tomlinson: I really love that because it reminds me, we've spoken about imposter syndrome on the podcast before, because we know it's such a topic for leaders. And I think in our last episode with Charlotte Otter, she has a great new book, "We Need New Leaders." And it starts off with exactly that, around we don't need to be like these loud leaders that you typically identify as the leader, these loud, brash type A personalities, right? But in that case, what does confidence look like in practice today for leaders and communicators? Because I think the leadership sphere is changing a little bit compared to the way it was in the past. Where do you see leveraging that confidence going forward?

Advita Patel: Yeah. Great question again. What I do want to say is that there's nothing wrong with being extroverted and loud and having opinions and being able to debate and discuss and showing up as your true, genuine self, right? Where the challenge starts, because what I don't want Brian is people listening to us talking and thinking that, "Well, my personality is loud and I am confident in the space, and does that mean that I'm not a great leader?" That is not what we are saying at all.

It's recognizing, are you loud and putting yourself in the center of attention because you're hoping that you'll be distracting others from some of the challenges that you're facing, or are you creating a culture where people feel like they can't speak up against you or they can't challenge you because you've set yourself up in such a way that people are frightened or fearful of doing that? And a confident leader is somebody who is so in tune with themselves, the great things about themselves, and the not-so-great things about themselves, and being okay with the not-so-great things about themselves because we're not perfect human beings.

None of us are perfect in any way. And we need to acknowledge and appreciate the great stuff about us, but also the stuff that we're not great at and where our genius doesn't lie and being okay with that and recognizing that we may need to learn in some of those spaces and in some of those spaces we don't need to learn because we've got other people in our space who will help us achieve the objective that we have even though our genius may not lie in that space. And being okay with that because what I find is that when you know yourself well enough, there isn't anything anyone can really say to you that will shake your confidence, right?Somebody might say to me "Oh Advita, you come up with such great ideas, but you do too much and you never really get to the end of any of them because you're coming up with new ideas all of the time." I'm like, "Yes, I recognize that about myself, and I pride myself in being an innovator and being disruptive and coming up with creative ideas, and I surround myself with a team that can help me deliver it." Because I recognize that my genius doesn't lie in the intricate detail of how to get things done, but I have people in my team that can help me do that, and hold me accountable for some of this stuff.

And a great leader who's confident will know that about themselves, and don't need to micromanage and don't need to create a fearful culture, and don't make life miserable for others. You can have difficult conversations with others who you may not be performing in the way, you don't need to make them feel terrible about themselves. There are ways of having those conversations that will make them feel enlightened and recognize whether they can succeed in that role or not, without destroying their confidence or self-esteem.

You can create a culture where everybody has an equal chance or an equitable chance to survive and thrive in the way that everybody else can, because you're creating that culture for them. And a great, good, confident leader will see this, will observe this, will recognize the symptoms of a poor culture, and will do everything in their power to make it accessible and inclusive for everybody around them.

Brian Tomlinson: Yes, and to build everyone else's confidence as well.

Advita Patel: Yeah. We spend so much of our time at work. And I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to who hate what they do, or dislike what they do, or dislike the company that they work with. And I just think well, we have one chance at life. In the grand scheme of things . . .

Brian Tomlinson: Why stay?

Advita Patel: Yeah. I always say to the people that I coach is, if you truly believe that you are not able to shift, or change, or add value in the organization that you are in, then remember, we're not trees, we're not rooted, we can pick ourselves up and exit. And I'm not saying quit tomorrow, because not everyone has the privilege to do that. But plan your exit strategy, and recognize and understand where your talents will be recognized. One of my most favorite quotes is, "Go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated."

Brian Tomlinson: Yeah. I actually just heard a quote that I think totally fits to that, and it's, "I'd much rather be hated for who I am than to be loved for who I'm not."

Advita Patel: Yes. Yes, I love that one as well. That's another favorite one of mine.

Brian Tomlinson: I think that what you're saying as well is very much around self-awareness and the self-image. Because you have also great studies or "Psycho-Cybernetics" is also a great book that anyone could read as well, that talks about the self-image. And when you put those two together, understanding who you are, going through that process of figuring out that foundationally who you are, and creating that self-image, the theater of the mind is what they call it. For you, being an innovator, a disruptor, I think that's what ultimately leads you to taking the action that develops the confidence that you need as well.

Advita Patel: Yeah. 100%, yeah. You need to know yourself well enough, to your point, Brian. When you know yourself well enough, and you take time to understand yourself . . . You know, one of the challenges I realized about myself in 2018 was that I had lost my identity. I've spent so much of my career and life, really, conforming to what other people believed I should be to be a successful leader. And I changed myself to such an extent that I just didn't know who I was. And that was one of my confidence crashes. And I used to call myself the communications chameleon.

And I used to remember saying to my boss, "Don't you worry. I'll persuade them. I will get them on site." And I used to kind of pretend that I loved certain things just to get people to connect with me or adapt my personality, so I don't make other people feel uncomfortable in my company. I used to make jokes about my own culture, so other people didn't, or before anyone else could, just so I could fit in and belong. And doing that for almost two decades can really mess with your psyche. And you can struggle to identify and articulate who you are and what you want.

And you get to a certain point in your career where you're just a bit like, "What am I doing? Who am I doing it for, and what value am I bringing? What's the legacy that I want to leave? How do I want people to remember me?" And I saw a really interesting thing on Instagram today, actually, about the, it's like the funeral analogy where, when you pass and people come to your funeral, research shows that out of everybody in that funeral hall, only 10 people will ever cry for you. The average is around 10 people. So why do we worry so much about what other people think about us when only 10 people will ever cry when we're not here?

And that hit me hard, because we spend so much of our time trying to fit into this vision of what other people believe a good leader should be like, or what a good communications professional should do when we conform to believing certain influences or certain people because we want to be like them. And in that process, we forget who we are. And it's so important that we spend time to find ourselves and love who we are, and not apologize for it.

Brian Tomlinson: Yes, I couldn't agree more. Despite even as we grow, and we do get this confidence, it's the ugly head of imposter syndrome of self-doubt, always tends to rear its head. How do you think leaders can best manage imposter syndrome and confidence, like balancing that without becoming inauthentic? Because exactly what you said earlier, it's like, "Oh, I have this feeling. I feel this pressure that I need to act in a certain way that's not me in order to fit in. And just like we talked about, that breeds this insecurity somewhere in the subconscious, that all of a sudden, you feel like you're not enough, at some point. At some point, you break.

Advita Patel: You do.

Brian Tomlinson: How can leaders manage that and be able to project confidence in an authentic way?

Advita Patel: Imposter syndrome is, or wasn't ever intended to be a syndrome. So we act like it's a disease that can't be cured. What we need to remember about imposter syndrome is that everybody suffers from it at some point, whether you're a man, woman, non-binary, it doesn't matter. Every single person, human being, generally suffers from it at some point in their careers, in their personal life. And that's normal to feel that you don't know enough, or you should know more. It's normal at the start of anything new. So when you go into anything new, the feeling of that imposter inner critic, it will be at peak.

And that's a normal experience. That's normal to experience that. What isn't normal is if that continues throughout that role or throughout that process, or whatever's going on, if it's a continuous feeling. And what I have researched and recognized, and read about imposter syndrome, is that often, if you feel that way continuously, it's because the environment that you're in isn't set up for you to succeed. So if you're feeling you're having to be somebody that you're not, or your integrity is in question, or you're not living against your values, because your type of values or your type of personality doesn't fit in, that likelihood is because the environment is not for you, and it's not set up for you.

And the sooner you can recognize and realize that, the sooner you can make a decision that's best for your well-being and best for your future. Because we put so much blame on ourselves for this fraudulent belief, we don't often look at what's going on around us, the external factors that are making us feel like we don't fit in, the external factors that make us feel like we're fraud, or we have to pretend to be somebody that we're not. And if it's making you uncomfortable, and it's making you feel that you're not growing and developing, and thriving, then it's a sign, it's a red flag, that that space isn't for you.

Now, there's a difference between a growth mindset. So recognizing that you may not know something now, but I will learn to know it soon, because I'm growing, and I'm developing and I recognize that about myself. And that's the difference between continuous feeling like an imposter and this voice shouting at you every day for a long period of time, compared to recognizing that you do feel a bit fraudish or you don't feel like you quite got it, but recognizing that you're learning every day and soon you'll learn and you won't feel that way anymore. And that's the difference between the two.

And I think anyone that's listening who continuously has that imposter feeling, I would ask you to pause, reflect, look at the evidence that's taking you to where you are today, your receipts, as I call them, look at the proof points that have made you the person that you are and remind yourself of the values that you're bringing every single day. Because we always look at the outcome rather than the journey we're going through. So we're always looking at finishing the task, ticking off the to-do list. We don't appreciate the journey we've taken to get to that point. And that's the difference in terms of how you should be feeling and what that looks like for you.

Brian Tomlinson: Yeah. Most important part is the journey. That's what shapes us at the end of the day.

Advita Patel: 100%. Enjoying that journey and recognizing every week I will take five minutes to talk for myself to write down three lessons I've learned that week. What are the three things that I have learned that week about myself? Not about anything else, but about myself, that I love, that I appreciate, and that I need to do better in. And I do that every week, because it's a reminder to myself that I am an important person in my life. And as much as leaders, we care about our teams and we care about the programs and the projects that we support, if we don't care about ourselves and we don't put ourselves first, we are not going to be able to help anybody else.

Brian Tomlinson: Yes, I couldn't agree more. You are the most important person in your life. 

Advita Patel: Yeah, you are the most important person in your life. You have to be. Which is why planes tell you to put the oxygen mask on first. There's a reason for that. Because you can't pour from an empty jug. You can't help anybody if your wellbeing and mental health is not where you need it to be. And so we have to love and appreciate ourselves first, because if we don't, then the likelihood of us giving to other people is not going to help, and we can't help other people. We can't leave that legacy that we want to leave.

Brian Tomlinson: Yeah, totally. We have all the topics, but there's one thing that I'm very curious about. In your research with imposter syndrome, because I remember reading before that imposter syndrome tends to affect women more so than men. And I'm curious if you have found the same thing, if it's higher in women or in underrepresented people. And how can we, as leaders, actually help foster confidence then for those people to be able to better support them to become the new leaders that we need of tomorrow?

Advita Patel: So, I would say that imposter syndrome it impacts everybody, as I said before. It definitely does impact women more because we are living in a world that hasn't been set up for women to succeed. The inequalities and the inequities that women still face in the workplace are still very real. When you're trying to battle and navigate through systems that are not set up for you, then yes, you are 100% going to feel like you're an imposter because you're being asked to be somebody and do stuff that doesn't align with the way you work and live.

From anything, from the policies, from caring responsibilities to maternity or parental leave to flexible working, right? The systems haven't been set up for women to succeed in the way that men can generally. And that's fact, and that's proven, and that's research out there. That the laws and the policies have been set up for the average white man on this side of the world. I'm talking about Europe. In fact, actually, without going into the historical things of everything, colonialism has played a big part in how certain countries work as well.

Brian Tomlinson: True.

Advita Patel: And the laws and the policies have been influenced by colonialism behavior, right? So whether you were invaded by Britain or the US or Spain or France, or whatever in African continent or Asia, generally, the laws have been developed from that period. So we can say that, yes, on this side of the world where we live, like the US and UK, and mainland Europe, but the influence is across the world in how the systems have been set up for men to succeed more than women. Things are changing. I'm not saying they're not. They are changing. And there's lots of advocates and allies who are helping to shift.

And things have changed dramatically, I would say, in the last 40, 50 years, but it's not changed quick enough. So women are still going to face that imposter. Same with underrepresented folks, right? When you're working, living in a world that you're the minority, you will always have a sense of exclusion. And the way leaders can help is by listening and recognizing that your team are culturally different. So what do you need to do to make sure that fair processes are in place, so everybody has equal chance to succeed at opportunities? And we have to be mindful as leaders and be observant enough to know how much of that bias is influencing the decisions that we're making.

Because we all have a bias, and we all lean toward people that we relate with. I will definitely lean towards more South Asian women because I see myself in them. But I know that about myself, so I'll be very aware, is my bias playing a part in the decision that I'm making about this individual? Am I giving this person an opportunity because we share the same school, or we went to the same university, or we like watching the same TV programs? And it's little things like that that doesn't seem like a massive deal but can have a massive impact on how you're behaving in the workplace.

And we need to understand and observe our team to see who are the ones who are thriving? Who are the ones who are putting the hand up and contributing? Who are the ones who are constantly showing up for themselves? And why are the ones who are not? What's happening? Is it something that we're doing from a work context? Is it something happening in their personal lives? What do we need to do to make sure that they feel included in some of the work that we're doing? So asking that one powerful question, "What can I do to help you thrive in this workplace? What do you need from me to help you do that?"

Brian Tomlinson: That's powerful. That's a good segue into inclusivity because what I'm hearing there is really, "Hey, we need a more inclusive workplace at the end of the day." And I've heard you mention recently that equity, diversity, inclusion has been weaponized under the banner of meritocracy. How do we coach leaders to maybe talk about some of these areas of culture transformation, of inclusion, without them fearing getting it wrong? Because I think that's where we are right now, a bit in society, and obviously then in business of there's a topic that, like you said, is being weaponized in some places. And they don't know, like, "Okay, what can I say? What should I say? What not?" People don't know where they stand. What do you think? How can we help leaders work through that?

Advita Patel: You've got to lean into your curiosity. Most folks are forgiving if you get things wrong when they can see that you're making a genuine attempt to get things right. If you are making mistakes time and time again and you're not learning, that's where the frustration starts, and that's when somebody will call you out and will hold you accountable. But most folks are open for people stumbling and fumbling their way through a very complex world that we're in right now when it comes to diversity, equity, and inclusion. And complex in the sense that it's about people, right, Brian? And people are complicated creatures. We are.

Brian Tomlinson: We are.

Advita Patel: We have very different ways of thinking. I think it gets quite clear from what we've seen in recent times about the polarization facing communities. And we're pitted against each other all of the time. There's so much misinformation and disinformation being spread. The explosion of AI, as much as I value that tool and that innovation, because I do think it will revolutionize how we work in the future, we still don't know how to use those tools for the greater purpose, because it's still full of bias. It's still full of misinformation. There's still lots of disinformation on there.

We're not very good at critiquing our own research, and we're not very good at asking curious questions. We make assumptions about individuals. We stereotype a lot. We listen to people who we probably shouldn't listen to. We should be looking at both sides of the story. I don't think life is as clear-cut as some people make it out to be, that this is right and this is wrong. I don't think it's that easy to be honest with you. I believe that there's so much different nuances and contexts that we need to be aware of.

We spend most of our time on socials communicating with each other without actually knowing that person, and we're making that assumption about them. So it's causing all sorts of conflict and disagreement. And I don't know any marginalized or underrepresented person who wants to be given an opportunity that they're not qualified for. So when we talk about meritocracy, yes, we agree, meritocracy should be something that we should be thinking about, because you have to create a fair process for everybody to have the opportunity. And that's where we go wrong, because the process isn't fair. And that's what the challenge is.

So when opportunities are given to individuals, we're not looking at the policies that are in place, we're not looking at things like flexible working, we're not even looking at where are we advertising for these opportunities. Somebody came into my DMs not so long ago, talking about an opportunity in their workplace that they were going to apply for, and the job description was changed for it to fit into the person they wanted the job to get, there was a specific skill that only this one person had that they put into the job description in essential.

Now, is that fair? Is that a fair thing to do? Probably not. Is this essential skill a necessity to that role? You have to ask that question and be honest with yourself. And based on what they said, I would say no, not for a communications role anyway, which is what this was for. But I find that we make these decisions because we think that we're making life a bit easier for ourselves. "Oh, I know I want to work with that person because I know them, and I know they'll hit the ground running, and they've been recommended to me."

But is that recommendation based on someone else's bias, based on what they believe that you would want? And that's what I mean about meritocracy. Meritocracy, I would say most folks will agree with, but the process to get to meritocracy is what people have the problem with. If the process isn't fair and transparent and accessible, and inclusive, then there'll never be meritocracy in senior leadership team.

Brian Tomlinson: Yes, it's something that we all need to manage and address, right?

Advita Patel: Yeah, and asking questions. We just don't ask enough questions. We're not curious about each other anymore. We base our assumptions based on the things that we read about somebody on LinkedIn or see their story on Instagram. It's the flashes. We get a flash of this person. We don't connect as much as we probably did connect before hybrid working came into the world or remote working.

We just don't take the time to get to know each other as much as we probably did. Even before COVID, things were changing slowly before COVID anyway. I believe that the art of connection is lost, and it's continuously reducing as time goes on.

Brian Tomlinson: How does intercommunication help with that, then? Typically, IC tends to be overlooked as a strategic tool. How can they be able to reposition themselves as strategic drivers of impact and not just be seen as messengers? So how can they be a part of that strategic shift to make access and inclusivity and a part of culture be a part of their repertoire, that what they're known for of, like, "Oh, because of what comms did, we see the impact over here because our people are more engaged, they're with us, they're a part of the company." How do you see the role of internal comms being?

Advita Patel: I think I've been talking about this topic since I started in comms, and it's all around data and measurement, and insight. Our opinion is important, our experience around that opinion is important, but we need to back it with data, and we need to back it with insight, and we need to back it with knowledge. And I will always say that we are business leaders with communication expertise.

And that's how I would position ourselves in the workplace. So we need to know what is our business, what are we trying to do, what is the objectives of what we're trying to achieve, what are the things that our leaders want to convey, what's important to our employees, and how do we create that narrative that will help people understand the value that they are bringing to this workplace? And that's our role. Our role is to listen to what our employees and colleagues are saying, translate that into a business need for our leaders, so they recognize and understand some of the challenges.

And we create the stories around that to help people understand the value that they're bringing, using effective channels to do that. I'm not saying basically, because it's not basic. People always say that what we do isn't rocket science. It isn't rocket science if you're in that space. But if you're not in that space, then, like with anything, if you're a rocket scientist and a rocket scientist is going to go, "It's not rocket science, easy for me," or a math person doing equations, I've got to find that easy compared to somebody who doesn't do that, right? So we need to be careful about how we talk about our industry and our profession as well.

We need to be able to build the case around the insights that we are gathering through active listening, through pulse surveys, through engagement scores, through sentiment checkers, through having conversations, looking at how it all connects to the business outcomes, because if we're not delivering against the business need and the business objectives, then what are we there to do? What is our role in that organization if we're not helping the organization deliver against its objectives?

And we need to be able to gather that information to show our leadership team whether or not we're delivering the correct support based on the impact that they want in the organization. And that's the role that internal comms can play. But we seem to kind of play around in this tactical space. When attention isn't given to us, we believe that doing more is going to get us the attention. We believe that spending hours and hours, crafting and developing a good-looking newsletter, is going to give us the seat that everyone talks about around that table.

But business leaders care. I know there's been debates online saying that CEOs don't care about comms. The CEOs I know care greatly about comms. But what they care about is the impact. We talk a lot about outputs, we talk a lot about outcomes, we don't often talk about impact. So what impact are all these comms having on the business? And that's the kind of language we need to start talking in. And I know I can sense some of the eye rolls, virtually by people listening about this topic.

But we need to talk in the business language. We need to be able to hold our own around that boardroom table. We need to be able to create our own space and take . . . You know, somebody said to me the other day, take our own folding chair around that table and elbow our way to that space. And the only way we can do that is when we believe in what we're doing, when we are confident in our abilities, and we can hold our own. In order for it to hold our own, we need to understand the industry and the business that we're supporting.

Brian Tomlinson: Yes, absolutely. Do you think we are leveraging technology enough in that space?

Advita Patel: No. I don't know about you. There's two camps, right now, in internal comms with tech. We've got one camp who is frightened of it, who believe it's going to take our jobs, and it's nonsense and if I see one more LinkedIn post talking about em dashes and Oxford commas and how it's a telltale sign for people using AI, I'm just going to lose . . .  You just lose the point. It's like, we're talking about the wrong things here, people. Let's not get bogged down with how people are writing the comms. Is the content relevant? Is it adding value? Is it making a difference?

Let's talk about that. Because there are people who write content without using AI, which are equally nonsensical, right? It doesn't matter what tool you're using. It's how you're using that tool to make a difference. So you've got one camp that's frightened of the tools and the technology and thinks that it's going to take over their jobs and they won't have anything left to do. And then you've got one camp who is like running away with it and are using it for absolutely everything and anything. Maybe to the other extreme, without actually looking at the negative impact it may have if you're not doing the due diligence around some of that stuff.

Like some teams are now using it as crafting press releases, which is okay, but as long as you've got a human editor and the accuracy is there. I know from my journalist friends that people are literally, and not comms professionals, but they got rid of the comms professionals, and other people are now using Chat[GPT] and other AI tools to craft content and are just sending it on without doing any due diligence on it. And the inaccuracies and the misinformation on that is just ridiculous. Brian Tomlinson: Yeah.Advita Patel: So we need to be mindful about how the tools, not only AI, but other tools, and other technology that's around us, to help reduce the cognitive overload.

That's what it's there to do is to reduce the cognitive overload, using tools like, you know, the service that you folks provide, the tools that you're providing, looking at the data, looking at the insights, it does the work for you, so you shouldn't have to. Using that kind of stuff to help you identify the impact and the measures, and the outcomes. And then, so you can tell that story in the boardroom, is what those tools should be used for.

Brian Tomlinson: Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself, actually, because that's what we are very much all about is like, how can we help drive impact? And that's really a big thing about what we do. But something that you mentioned there, that being the case, people are leveraging AI. What skills do you think every communicator needs to develop to stay relevant?

Advita Patel: Such a good question. Well definitely, AI isn't just about how good you're writing the prompt. It's so much more than that. So you need to be able to learn about the tool in terms of how it consumes data, how it produces data, and what it can do for you beyond just writing a good prompt. So I would advise any comms folks out there to go and find a program or a training course, or at least follow somebody that knows what they're talking about in this space and experiment in this. Chat, the OpenAI, isn't the only AI tool out there that can help you.

There's so many other versions that can support you from Perplexity, to Claude, to Gamma, to Presentation AI. There's so many different tools, but we default to the most common one because it's the one that most people talk about. Be curious enough to find out about what is this tool, and not only about how to write a good prompt, but also how I can use it to help me with other things. And it may not be Chat. It may be other AI tools that are out there that can support you. That's number one. That's a skill. I would say in the next 12 to 18 months, we'll start seeing that. To be fair, we're seeing it on some job descriptions already, the skill around AI.

Brian Tomlinson: I mean I expect that. When I'm hiring, I expect that somebody even uses AI within that process, because it's necessary.

Advita Patel: Yeah. It's like hiring somebody that doesn't know how to use a calculator. We're going to get to that stage where it just becomes the norm, not the exception. And we need to be ahead of the game with this, because organizations are also moving at pace with this work now, compared to two years ago when it first started to peak or become more mainstream, I should say. You know, the technology is moving at such pace that organizations are trying to catch up. So we should be not moving away from it, but moving towards it. And we should be knowledgeable, at least, about what's available so we can advise and guide our leaders in the right space, especially tools that can help communication be better in the workplace.

The other skill I would say, with AI, we need to now become more advisors, I would say, and strategic advisors. And I know the word strategy and strategic is thrown around like anything these days, and people are like, "What does it even mean? What does it mean?" But it means about long-term planning, ultimately. Strip all the corporate lingo away from that. But how are we helping the organization plan as much as they can in the long term, bearing in mind that the world that we're living in is still very uncertain, and the pandemic taught us that, that you can't always plan for every crisis and every situation, but we can definitely help our leaders think about the long-term impacts.

How are we supporting our teams to retain, attract talent in the workplace? How are we helping our colleagues build pride around the work that we're doing? How do we build that loyalty that's been lost, that discretionary effort that helps organizations thrive? You know, how do we bring all that back, and how do we support our leaders with that? So understanding how you can influence, how you can negotiate, how you can talk the business lingo, all of that stuff is really important. I remember my first-ever invitation around that boardroom table. So I'd been working for 12 years, Brian, in getting recognized and talking about the seat at the table.

I finally got the seat at the table, and I remember listening to the chief exec and the other exec directors talking about finance, and the budget, EBITDA, net cash, profit and loss, all those words. I remember sitting there in silence, because I was like, "What are they actually talking about?" And I couldn't contribute to that conversation at all. So I went off after my second board meeting and thinking I can't stay silent for longer, because I might as well not be here. I went off and did a finance for non-finance managers training.

And that completely changed how I showed up in that boardroom, and demonstrating how communications is a strategic function, and how I can relate back to some of the financial challenges they were having through effective comms. And that gave me not only power in the room, but also confidence in what I was saying. So courses outside of our own echo chamber and information bubble are equally, if not even more important. So going off and looking at finance for non-finance managers, looking at business acumen, learning about how to write a proper strategy, not necessarily a communication strategy, but a business case and a strategy around the business, that kind of stuff is going to elevate you to the next level.

Brian Tomlinson: Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. I think that's a great way to wrap up. Because it comes back to what you said earlier, is we have to have business knowledge, because even with AI, you're going to be so much more dangerous if you have knowledge that you can leverage with that AI, versus just using it and having no clue about what the outcome should be in the end. So I think that's great. Maybe let's end with a few rapid-fire questions. I don't think you're super prepared.

Advita Patel: No.

Brian Tomlinson: Let's go. I just have three of them.

Advita Patel: Let's go.

Brian Tomlinson: What's one myth about confidence that drives you up the wall?

Advita Patel: Oh, gosh. That you have to be extroverted and really loud and be center of attention, because the most extroverted people still suffer with confidence.

Brian Tomlinson: I couldn't agree more. I love that. What's your most gifted book?

Advita Patel: "The Year of Yes" by Shonda Rhimes. It's a book that I gift to so many people, because it changed my life. That and "Dare to Lead" by Brené Brown. They're the two books that I gift to my coachees and to people who are going through a bit of a challenging time.

Brian Tomlinson: Amazing. And what's the best advice you've ever received, and the advice you give the most?

Advita Patel: The best advice I share with myself and with others is you can't be everybody's cup of tea, otherwise, you'll be a mug. And that's a reminder to me as a recovering people pleaser, Brian, that there will be people out there who don't like what you're doing, who don't enjoy you standing up for yourself, who may find some of the stuff you're doing isn't aligned with them. That's okay. Everybody's allowed to have an opinion and everyone's allowed to have a view, but you don't always have to take it on board. So you can't be everyone's cup of tea, otherwise, you will be a mug. So keep your head up, keep your chin up, and keep looking forward.

Brian Tomlinson: Love it. So Advita, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today.

Advita Patel: Thank you.

Brian Tomlinson: To everyone watching and listening, I guess, first, let us know where can everyone find you?

Advita Patel: Oh, gosh. I am everywhere. I am on Instagram, I am on LinkedIn. I'll post every day on LinkedIn. It's my commitment to myself to show up for myself. You can find me on LinkedIn, you can find me on Instagram, and you can also find me on TikTok as well. I'm on all three platforms. I am on X still, but I don't post on there very frequently. Those are the three main platforms. Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn.

Brian Tomlinson: Great. All right. I hope everyone, go out, have a look for Advita, tell her "Hello." I'm pretty sure that she'll reply. And we're looking forward to the next book. I know I am.

Advita Patel: Thank you so much, Brian. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Brian Tomlinson: Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Again, Brian Tomlinson here, and this has been the Aspire to Inspire Podcast. We'll see you on the next one.